Ketron SD1000 module to RD700SX fault.Need solution.

Ketron Arranger Keyboards, Stage Pianos & Modules

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Denv12
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Ketron SD1000 module to RD700SX fault.Need solution.

Unread post by Denv12 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:39 am

Hi.Thank you for visiting my post.I am reposting the situation entirely.I will add links,information,etc here to be as accurate as I can.If you need photos of the equipment and anything else please let me know.
There arent any how to video tutorials covering the Ketron modules.

From my experience with connecting modules they were always connected up with 2 x 5 pin Midi cables between module and piano.At some point manufacturers added RCA connections on modules to connect up to amplifiers.

I bought the Ketron SD1000 sound module last week because I specifically wanted the electric pianos that werent on the Ketron SD2 sound module.I already own the Ketron SD2 sound module which I bought in January.

Please note,I did have the Roland SD50 sound module recently.(I got a refund).These Ketrons are not related to Roland,despite having a title of SD,which could cause some confusion.Ketron is an Italian brand,not a Roland brand.This is the Ketron Italy website:

http://www.ketron.it/
I noticed on the Ketron SD1000 page there are templates for:
Logic Templates
Cubase Templates
Sonar Template.
What do these do? At what point would I need them?

Ketron SD1000 and SD2 do not have their own screens.And,driver software are pre installed.

Here's how I connected up the SD1000 module to start with:
Roland RD700SX Midi Ou1 to SD1000 Midi In.(5 pin Midi cable)
dual RCA's from SD1000 L-R to amp.(you can alternatively run RCAs to tascam digital recorder mixer.)
I switched on SD1000,piano,amplifier.
I switched on External zone switch.
I have the display Screen showing:
MSB LSB PC. (MSB is the 4 banks of sounds,LSB = 0,the PC (program change)PC=the 1 to 128 sounds.).
The volume goes off at the piano.The volume goes on at the SD1000.
The red light flashes at all times,irrespective of the activity.

I did try this where I changed the LSB.It didnt do anything.

When I go to play the piano,it does work to start with.It does play more pianos than what there on there.And,it only plays 2 of the 20 electric pianos.There are a few other sounds/tones it doesnt play.
I scroll through the 1 to 128 sounds(play each sound from 1 to 128).I also scroll through the MSB changing the banks from A=0,B=1,C=10,D=11.

If I connect up the module to this computer via USB,nothing happens.

As for Midi Channels,how do you find them? Are they in the piano?

When I plug in the Ketron SD2 sound module exactly the same way with the same connections and cables,it works perfectly.I can play every sound on every bank.The SD2 has a blue LED light that flashes accordingly to piano activity.There isnt any problem at all with the SD2.And,its a nice module to use.

I was told by another owner,not manufacturer,that this issue is a the Roland RD700SX sending active sensing message causing the SD1000 to bug with the Midi Port.Apparently this is a standard fault with the SD1000.The manufacturer,Ketron in Italy,have already been informed of this since the SD1000 was released on the market.

One way out of this is to connect up via USB cables with piano,module and either a computer /ipad with DAW software and activate the sounds/tones through the touchpad.I cant afford to buy one.Although I'm selling off a lot of my belongings to pay for anything else I need.That isnt an option right now.I dont know if a department store brand tablet would do the job.That could dictate the software that needs to be used on it,I would think.

Does this fault sound liked it can be solved with a Midi Router or Midi Filter?

I have done a Factory Reset on the piano.This didnt help.
I dont know of other settings on the piano that might need to be changed.
I contacted Roland Corp.They told me not to disable the active sensing.They suggested the Midi Filter.

Here are some links:

http://www.ketron.it/index.php?option=c ... 0&lang=eng

There are options on the top right of the page to switch to English language.Click on the English flag.
Please look through the page and look at the front and the rear of the SD1000.The SD2 is listed there but doesnt have its own page.Both the SD1000 and SD2 are similar to some degree.Neither of them have their own screens.

Here is a Youtube video demo of the SD1000 of its electric pianos.All those sounds/tones are on this module.Please note the way its connected:



This is another Youtube video demo:



Ketron SD1000 Owners Manual:
sd1000.pdf
(939.89 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
Ketron SD2 owners Manual:
KETRON SD2 manuale.pdf
(1003.21 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
Roland RD700SX owners manual:
RD-700SX_OM.pdf
(6.56 MiB) Downloaded 10 times
The Roland website on the RD700SX piano:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/666

Today I tried to daisychain (or piggyback) both modules:
Midi cable from RD700SX piano Midi Out1 to SD2 module Midi In.(5 pin Midi cable)
(remember the SD2 connects up and works perfectly.)
Midi cable from SD2 Midi Thru to SD1000 Midi In.
RCA's to amp on SD1000,
Volume off SD2,Volume on SD1000.Volume off piano.
Switch on SD2,SD1000,piano and amp.
Switch on External Zone.
MSB LSB PC settings as follows:
MSB =Bank 0,1,10,11. LSB =0. PC = 1 to 128 tones/sounds.

This had a minor effect.It did give me an extra 2 sounds that it didnt play before.

I am looking for solutions to the problem.I'm not DAW software savy.(although I am computer savy to some degree).If someone knows of a simply software that I can install on an android tablet for example,please let me know.I did try Presonus Studio One2 first then tried Reaper.I didnt get anywhere with those.My (Chinese)neighbour and I, with the help of his windows 7,32 bit laptop ,didnt get anywhere.
My desktop computer is in my bedroom whilst all the piano equipment are in the lounge room.
I dont own an ipad,tablet,laptop or another computer that I can use between piano and module.I have save up for that.


I found this Midi page:
http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/intromidi.pdf


Here's one software that suitable for the Ketron modules:
http://www.varranger.com/
I cant afford this yet.


UPDATE:(March 26:)
I have just purchased a Midi Solutions Program Input Selector from an Australian Retailer.It will be delivered here tomorrow.
Update:March 27.Its delivered,connected.SD1000 is perfect.Its beautiful.Its a keeper.Thats solved this whole problem.
Last edited by Denv12 on Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:27 am, edited 5 times in total.



db7

Re: Ketron SD1000 module to RD700SX fault.Need solution.

Unread post by db7 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:37 pm

As per one of my previous suggestions, are you able to change the LSB also? In XG and other extensions to MIDI/Program/Bank Change, the Bank MSB is the broad type of voice (normal, drum, SFX), the PC is the particular voice in General MIDI terms (Grand Piano, Cello, Saw Lead, and so on), and the Bank LSB selects variations within that voice. It sounds to me as though you are not changing the LSB and therefore are not getting the extra types of pianos and so forth ‘within’ each Program Change.



db7

Re: Ketron SD1000 module to RD700SX fault.Need solution.

Unread post by db7 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:10 pm

Before switching Bank Select LSB off, I would have suggested actually trying it. I thought not using it might be the exact cause of Denv12’s problem. If Sonus had explained more in their post, I’d be more inclined to agree straight away… For example, where’s the table from? The official documentation for the SD1000? Then it would indicate Bank Select LSB should be usable and have a significant function, so why would we want to deactivate it? If the diagram’s not related to the SD1000, where is it from, and how’s it relevant to Denv12’s situation?

But… let’s not remain hypothetical. I did the research to save anyone else being confused. A quick Google takes us to the manual for the SD1000: http://www.ketronmusic.co.uk/support/manuals/SD1000.pdf. There we see that Sonus’s diagram is from somewhere different that is presumably not directly relevant to selecting voices in the SD1000. Back in the SD1000, the manual tells us that Bank Select LSB is apparently, indeed, not used. Only Bank Select MSB and Program Changes are used to select voices.

So, Sonus was correct – which is definitely not unusual :mrgreen: – although again, explaining why in the first place would be a good idea, don’t you think? I’ve asked this before. Please don’t take this the wrong way: you clearly know a lot and post some really great information, so please keep that up! but, at least to me, I worry that the usefulness of tables and suchlike is greatly reduced when they’re not explained, just dropped into threads without any explanation.

As for the recommendation to disable Bank Select LSB, do you think sending LSB when not supported would cause errors? I’d like to assume the module will simply ignore it: that would be a basic principle of good design. I thought MIDI was like HTML or any other well-designed extensible system in that devices should simply ignore any commands they don’t personally support, rather than bugging out for no apparent reason. Do any modules do that?

Anyway, more importantly, that document lists which sounds are available in the SD1000 and which MSB and PC are needed to access them. Denv12, please obtain the manual and go to page 45, which lists sounds regardless of Bank by category, thus revealing how to get or avoid different types of piano – and/or to page 41, which groups them by Bank Select MSB and, within that, PC. Let us know whether these tables enable you to find the sounds that you expect by sending the appropriate combinations of MSB and PC to the SD1000.



Denv12
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Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:41 am

Re: Ketron SD1000 module to RD700SX fault.Need solution.

Unread post by Denv12 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:50 am

Sonus wrote:
MSB =Bank 0,1,10,11. LSB =0. PC = 1 to 128 tones/sounds.
Voice Bank A = Bank Select MSB 0
Voice Bank B = Bank Select MSB 1
Voice Bank C = Bank Select MSB 10
Voice Bank D = Bank Select MSB 11
Drum Loops = Bank Select MSB 4

Switch Bank Select LSB --- OFF :!:
settings.png
I followed your instructions as per the above.It still wont play all the sounds that are on there.It keeps playing way too many pianos,plays only 2 out of the 20 electric pianos and plays some of the other instruments on there.

The SD2 module set up as per your instructions has always worked perfectly every time even when I use the same cables and jacks.I even tried different cables.Didnt make a difference.



Denv12
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Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:41 am

Re: Ketron SD1000 module to RD700SX fault.Need solution.

Unread post by Denv12 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:01 am

db7 wrote:Before switching Bank Select LSB off, I would have suggested actually trying it. I thought not using it might be the exact cause of Denv12’s problem. If Sonus had explained more in their post, I’d be more inclined to agree straight away… For example, where’s the table from? The official documentation for the SD1000? Then it would indicate Bank Select LSB should be usable and have a significant function, so why would we want to deactivate it? If the diagram’s not related to the SD1000, where is it from, and how’s it relevant to Denv12’s situation?

But… let’s not remain hypothetical. I did the research to save anyone else being confused. A quick Google takes us to the manual for the SD1000: http://www.ketronmusic.co.uk/support/manuals/SD1000.pdf. There we see that Sonus’s diagram is from somewhere different that is presumably not directly relevant to selecting voices in the SD1000. Back in the SD1000, the manual tells us that Bank Select LSB is apparently, indeed, not used. Only Bank Select MSB and Program Changes are used to select voices.

So, Sonus was correct – which is definitely not unusual :mrgreen: – although again, explaining why in the first place would be a good idea, don’t you think? I’ve asked this before. Please don’t take this the wrong way: you clearly know a lot and post some really great information, so please keep that up! but, at least to me, I worry that the usefulness of tables and suchlike is greatly reduced when they’re not explained, just dropped into threads without any explanation.

As for the recommendation to disable Bank Select LSB, do you think sending LSB when not supported would cause errors? I’d like to assume the module will simply ignore it: that would be a basic principle of good design. I thought MIDI was like HTML or any other well-designed extensible system in that devices should simply ignore any commands they don’t personally support, rather than bugging out for no apparent reason. Do any modules do that?

Anyway, more importantly, that document lists which sounds are available in the SD1000 and which MSB and PC are needed to access them. Denv12, please obtain the manual and go to page 45, which lists sounds regardless of Bank by category, thus revealing how to get or avoid different types of piano – and/or to page 41, which groups them by Bank Select MSB and, within that, PC. Let us know whether these tables enable you to find the sounds that you expect by sending the appropriate combinations of MSB and PC to the SD1000.
This doesnt allow the SD1000 to do that.Every time I test this it never produces all the individual sounds where they are supposed to be.It keeps playing way too many pianos,that is,it doesnt have that many pianos to start with so thats a fault right there.Then,as its always done,it only plays 2 out of the 20 electric piano sounds.Its not allow it to play all the electric pianos so there's a shortfall just there.Thats a fault too.Then there are other sounds it wont play which are taken up by piano sounds.



Denv12
Member
Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:41 am

Re: Ketron SD1000 module to RD700SX fault.Need solution.

Unread post by Denv12 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:38 am

db7 wrote:As per one of my previous suggestions, are you able to change the LSB also? In XG and other extensions to MIDI/Program/Bank Change, the Bank MSB is the broad type of voice (normal, drum, SFX), the PC is the particular voice in General MIDI terms (Grand Piano, Cello, Saw Lead, and so on), and the Bank LSB selects variations within that voice. It sounds to me as though you are not changing the LSB and therefore are not getting the extra types of pianos and so forth ‘within’ each Program Change.
Changing the LSB doesnt do a thing.Changing the MSB gives you the 4 banks.Changing the PC gives you from 1 to 128 sounds on each bank.



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