reface cp hands-on review

Yamaha reface CP/DX/CS/YC mini keyboards

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woodshedjones
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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by woodshedjones » Mon May 08, 2017 6:01 pm

I've given up posting on Yamahasynth.com. There's no one there responding and also it doesn't work from mobile so I'd have to go and fire up the old computer machine which rarely happens in my day to day life.

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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by Derek » Mon May 08, 2017 7:44 pm

woodshedjones wrote:Here's the reply from Yamaha UK support after I told them the way to recreate the piano sound.

"Hi Adam
Thank you for letting me know
I have had a reply from Japan to say that there is a hidden piano voice inside Reface CP, but would not say how to acquire this voice or pass on information on selecting this voice
So now that I'm aware I'm not allowed to let customers know. How frustrating
Kind regards
Dusty

Best Regards

Your Yamaha Customer Service Team"
Lovely response that shows how good people can be hampered by a corporate behemoth.
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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by Saul » Mon May 08, 2017 8:04 pm

Always makes me laugh when I hear a response like that from Yamaha. It's almost like a comedy sketch or like it's permanently April 1st at Yamaha Japan.

So, WHY would they "hide" an acoustic piano inside the reface cp in the first place?

Perhaps really there is just one sample inside the reface cp and the all the sounds in it are derived from that?

Anyway as I mentioned before, Yamaha do have reasons for the way they do things. It's just a mystery to most of us why certain decisions are taken but then we are not privy to what goes on behind the scenes.

Yamahasynth.com "should" be the go to place for info but I think they have the wrong people running it. What they should have done is not bothered with it and instead invest their not insignificant resources over here, where at least people will get an answer :) Maybe they will get it eventually.
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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by m.tarenskeen » Tue May 09, 2017 1:17 pm

This review would not be complete without this amazing, recently discovered, easter egg:

Turn off the CP.
Place the instrument selector button midway between any two instruments.
Make sure it stays there when you take your hand away.
Turn on the CP.
You now have an acoustic piano sound. The instrument indicator will state RdI, even if it's actually between Clv and Toy, for example.
Turn the knob either way and it will revert to the selected instrument.

:o

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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by Saul » Tue May 09, 2017 1:25 pm

m.tarenskeen wrote:This review would not be complete without this amazing, recently discovered, easter egg:

Turn off the CP.
Place the instrument selector button midway between any two instruments.
Make sure it stays there when you take your hand away.
Turn on the CP.
You now have an acoustic piano sound. The instrument indicator will state RdI, even if it's actually between Clv and Toy, for example.
Turn the knob either way and it will revert to the selected instrument.

:o
Yeah that's what we have actually been talking about. woodshedjones discovered it first although didn't know how he did it until recently.

Great thing to have on the reface cp though. Get rid of that useless 'Toy Piano' and give it a proper Acoustic Piano preset!
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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by AJay » Wed May 10, 2017 5:29 pm

Saul wrote:@Chris They in particular took issue with my review of the Montage, will tell you about it later.
So, what did they dislike about it?
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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by Saul » Wed May 10, 2017 5:55 pm

Well AJay I think in particular my comparisons with Kronos and also how expensive it was. To be fair I can be a little sarcastic at times and that probably didn't help matters however I did also say Montage was a great keyboard and I have been saying that for quite a while. In fact I have spent the best part of the last 12 months promoting the merits of Montage all over the web, through social media, youtube and various forums and discussions. It's always the negative that stands out though :(
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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by AJay » Wed May 10, 2017 6:11 pm

Did they not actually state the issue though?

I have pointed out in the past that comparisons with Kronos/Oasys isn't an apples and apples situation. Rather like comparing the SY77/TG77 to the SY85/TG500, each will do sounds that the other won't and has features that the other doesn't.
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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by Saul » Wed May 10, 2017 7:40 pm

Probably best not to go into details given recent events. Will pm you so your up to speed on what happened.
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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by AJay » Wed May 10, 2017 7:50 pm

Okie dokie.

Had a quick read through your review and couldn't find anything obvious. Certainly wasn't anything like a scathing review, maybe I missed something somewhere.
Yamaha: SY85, TG500, A3000, PSR48, PSS780
Kawai: K4
Ensoniq: SQ2

Long Gone: Far too much gear from the 80's and 90's that went out the door for £££! Moved to soft synth city instead.

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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:01 am

EDIT:

I somehow missed the fact that there were five more pages of discussion about this, until after I posted it - which I will now go back and read :)

FWIW, here's the links I found, which I expect you've seen already.

woodshedjones wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:35 pm
Yeah I've had no luck in producing this mystery sound. I can assure you it was no April fools attempt! :lol: I have lots of videos of me playing the piano sound. But unless i can get a way to recreate it i will have to admit defeat.

Still waiting on any replies from another Yamaha synth forum.
I came across some examples of this earlier... I'll now attempt to find the relevant links again...

Starting with this review by sonicstate; there's a comment that says you put the voice selector knob at 12 o'clock, and get it to stay there, where there's no detent, apparently, and turn the power on.



It was a reply to another comment, which was at the top when I looked. He gives a link to a video where he's allegedly demonstrating doing it:

"
recrof 2 months ago
and you get acoustic piano for free when you turn TYPE knob to 12'o clock (that's technically undefined position)
see here: https://streamable.com/drxyp
"

I found another video where someone had found it by accident, but didn't know how. There's a comment with a link to a demo of how to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVmmhfb ... e=youtu.be

The demo link was an unlisted one, but since he posted it publicly in a youtube comment, I don't see why I shouldn't repeat it:



and again, in Italian:



I found a thread about it on Gearslutz too, but I won't link to it in case that's against the policy. It covers the same ground anyway.

Assuming this is not just an elaborate hoax, I have to wonder what the reasoning is. If I had the money to spend on one, having the acoustic piano sound would make me more likely to buy it.

The fact that it's not an official feature, and that Yamaha deny its existence, suggests they might want to remove it in another firmware update (as mentioned on Gearslutz - that occurred to me too). If I bought one, I'd want to make sure it had it, and I'd want confirmation that it wasn't going to disappear, before I updated the firmware.

It all seems a bit odd.

As Saul said (more or less) this is the only one of the Reface series that interests me.

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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by DarylWise » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:37 am

AndyHornBlower wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:01 am
EDIT:

I somehow missed the fact that there were five more pages of discussion about this, until after I posted it - which I will now go back and read :)

FWIW, here's the links I found, which I expect you've seen already.

woodshedjones wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:35 pm
Yeah I've had no luck in producing this mystery sound. I can assure you it was no April fools attempt! :lol: I have lots of videos of me playing the piano sound. But unless i can get a way to recreate it i will have to admit defeat.

Still waiting on any replies from another Yamaha synth forum.
I came across some examples of this earlier... I'll now attempt to find the relevant links again...

Starting with this review by sonicstate; there's a comment that says you put the voice selector knob at 12 o'clock, and get it to stay there, where there's no detent, apparently, and turn the power on.



It was a reply to another comment, which was at the top when I looked. He gives a link to a video where he's allegedly demonstrating doing it:

"
recrof 2 months ago
and you get acoustic piano for free when you turn TYPE knob to 12'o clock (that's technically undefined position)
see here: https://streamable.com/drxyp
"

I found another video where someone had found it by accident, but didn't know how. There's a comment with a link to a demo of how to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVmmhfb ... e=youtu.be

The demo link was an unlisted one, but since he posted it publicly in a youtube comment, I don't see why I shouldn't repeat it:



and again, in Italian:



I found a thread about it on Gearslutz too, but I won't link to it in case that's against the policy. It covers the same ground anyway.

Assuming this is not just an elaborate hoax, I have to wonder what the reasoning is. If I had the money to spend on one, having the acoustic piano sound would make me more likely to buy it.

The fact that it's not an official feature, and that Yamaha deny its existence, suggests they might want to remove it in another firmware update (as mentioned on Gearslutz - that occurred to me too). If I bought one, I'd want to make sure it had it, and I'd want confirmation that it wasn't going to disappear, before I updated the firmware.

It all seems a bit odd.

As Saul said (more or less) this is the only one of the Reface series that interests me.
Hi Andy.

No worries about sharing that link. The video is unlisted because the video content does not match the content of my channel overall is all.
Feel free to share the link. :)

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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:46 am

Thanks, Daryl :)

Yes, I just saw your post with that video in it, a couple of minutes ago - I just finished reading the thread.

I had the same thought Saul did about them all really being based on that acoustic piano sound - making this phenomenon a Wizard of Oz moment we weren't supposed to see - "Pay no attention to the man behind the screen".

On reflection though, it's probably easier to sample 6 different instruments than to try to make six very realistic variations out of one sample.

But, yes - if I ever buy one, I want my acoustic piano! I'll make sure it's in there before I leave the shop :)

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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:57 am

FWIW, if you google for the Reface CP or some of the others in the series, at the moment, you'll see a few places selling them for around £255.

While I'm pleased they're now cheaper, I'm partly wondering if that means those shops are planning to stop selling them, or have already, because there isn't enough demand.

I tried one in a shop, a couple of weeks ago, and I thought the acoustic piano sound was pretty good. As others have said, I wasn't taken by the toy piano sound, so I'd happily let it replace that on the dial in a firmware update - but if it lost the acoustic sound, I'd be upset. My favourites were the Wurly and the Clav, then the acoustic piano. I can get close enough to the "tine piano" sounds with my TX7, but they were quite nice.

I still can't quite justify spending that much on one, at the moment, though that might not necessarily stop me. Every time I think about that 6 pin DIN MIDI adapter cable, I have second thoughts.

I've come across quite a few posts by the famous Bad Mister, in another forum, explaining how it doesn't matter if you don't like the keyboard because it has MIDI. True, but it's through a crappy little adapter cable to a little socket which seems far more likely to break than a normal 5 pin DIN one. That cable could easily get lost and can't nearly as easily (or cheaply) be replaced as a standard MIDI cable.

If someone wanted to perform with a Reface, using MIDI, and found the adapter cable was missing or broken, they'd be screwed. They'd probably have a big pile of standard MIDI cables with them that would be of no use too.

Personally, I did like the mini keyboard, and I'd want to use it to control my synth modules. I see that adapter cable as a major drawback if you want to actually use the MIDI capability (by which I mean actual MIDI, not a connection to a DAW over a USB cable).

I've read quite a bit about what people would like to see in a re-issue, and I can see their points of view - some people want it just as a module. I'd consider that too, if it had proper MIDI sockets, and was quite a bit cheaper, but I wouldn't really expect it to be all that much cheaper. Some people want it with 61 full sized keys. I get that, but I don't want a full sized keyboard and I couldn't really afford it or find room for it, if it was built like that.

Personally, I'd be happy with a new version that was exactly as it is now, but with proper 5 pin DIN MIDI In and Out sockets. I'd settle for losing one or both built in speakers too. I don't suppose it will ever happen though.

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Re: reface cp hands-on review

Unread post by Saul » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:17 am

I agree with everything you said there Andy. The use of an adapter for the standard midi connection is something I just don't understand. Yes it works but as you said, what happens when it goes missing? If you need to plug into gear that is equipped with just the standard 5 pin midi sockets your screwed.

The keyboard is indeed well built and the few sounds on it I like are excellent but the pricing was and still is all wrong for something this size and this limited in the on-board sound department. There is just too much other, better value for money gear out there to distract away from the reface CP. The price would need to be much, much lower to really tempt me.

Also this thing about the hidden acoustic piano. It should not be hidden at all. It should be one of the main presets and get rid of that bloody useless toy piano patch. The speakers are ok, certainly better quality than most of this size but are they essential? not sure about that one. I did find it a lot of fun sitting on the sofa with the CP and using the on-board speakers but you can't put the volume too high and of course your not getting the best quality sound that the CP can produce. On balance I would rather ditch the speakers and have the money spent on other more essential things like proper sized midi ports and extra sounds. We can always use headphones right?

£255 is still way too much for any of the reface line, at least it is for me but of course others may see it in a different light. Their use of something like the reface CP might warrant that £255 and it may in fact be a bargain for them.

I think the bottom line is, if I had one sitting on my desk in front of me right now I would be a happy chap...as long as I didn't have to pay over £150 for it ;)
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