SY55 doesn't remember local off setting

Covering the SY22 to SY55 and TG Modules.

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FunkMachine
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SY55 doesn't remember local off setting

Unread post by FunkMachine » Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:02 am

Hi guys

Bit of a long shot perhaps. I use my SY55 as a master keyboard in a midi set up, for which I need the local setting to be 'Off' at all times. For some reason the synth never remembers the setting when I switch it off amd back on again, I've never had a synth that didn't do this!

It's no great hardship perhaps, but I have a module sitting on the buttons so it's a bit annoying at least.

I don't think it's the battery as there's no notification and it does remember a user patch I've overwritten / customised.

Any ideas would be welcome guys!

Cheers



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Re: SY55 doesn't remember local off setting

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:23 pm

I don't have a Yamaha synth, just some lower-end Yamaha ROMplers, but they all work that way, too-- Local Control is always turned On at startup. The usual solution is to create a "startup registration" that has everything set up the way you want it, then load that registration right after you start up the keyboard.

If that approach doesn't work for you, note that there's a MIDI Controller for Local Control-- CC#122 (or 7A in hex). A value of 0 sets Local Control to Off, whereas a value of 127 (hex 7F) sets Local Control to On. So in theory, you should be able to send the keyboard a Local Control message to tell it to not to generate sounds when you play. Since this is a Channel Mode message, you would need to send 16 messages, one per channel-- or you could turn it Off for some channels but leave it On for others.

Disclaimer: I haven't actually tried that yet, so I don't know if there are any hidden "gotchas."


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Re: SY55 doesn't remember local off setting

Unread post by parametric » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:40 pm

Seems like a good workaround possibility there from Mike . . .

I couldn't find any reference to the setting in the SY55 pdf I have.

The only chance would a look-see if there is a "save as default" option hiding in the menus somewhere?

Seems logical to me that it should take a snapshot at shutdown, and start up like the snapshot? Why otherwise would you need a "Factory Reset" (which I assume there is?)

If it is resetting as you describe - then I guess they never thought anyone would want to use it that way . . . .

Annoying, but maybe Mike's workaround helps in this respect?

parametric


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Re: SY55 doesn't remember local off setting

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:42 pm

I don't know anything about Yamaha's synths, except what I can read in the manuals, but with Yamaha's portable keyboards and arranger workstations there are specific settings which are automatically saved in the internal backup memory and automatically restored each time the keyboard is turned on, whereas all of the other settings are reset to their system default values at startup because there are no fields set aside for them in the internal backup memory-- and this varies from model to model as far as which settings (if any) get backed up. Generally speaking, only a small number of settings are saved in the backup memory, whereas most of the other settings can be saved in the registration memory (if the model has that), so between the backup and a "startup" registration-- which players usually assign to the first registration slot of the first registration bank to make it easier to recall-- you can create a custom setup that initializes the keyboard to your preferred setup.

It's too bad that the SY55's PDF manuals are images rather than text, because that makes it more difficult to search for every occurrence of a given word or phrase, and the Index doesn't always list every place that a word or topic is mentioned, plus some words might not be indexed alphabetically-- e.g., there's no listing under "L" for "Local Control," although there is one under "MIDI."

Anyway, after looking at the manual a bit, I'm wondering if the System settings could be saved to a memory card, then loaded after startup to initialize the SY55 as desired? I wonder which System settings are saved-- all of them, or only selected ones?

As far as sending setup data to the SY55 from a DAW, I'm guessing you could use the "UT MIDI\Bulk Out" function to save the System settings (page 137: "all system setup data-- e.g. current mode, utility master tune, utility transpose, utility effect and other settings"), then transmit the saved settings from a DAW or other program to initialize the SY55. However, it looks like you need to be sure that "UT MIDI\Bulk In Protect" is set to Off (page 136).

Looking at the MIDI reference for the SY55, I can't tell whether or not the SY55 responds to CC#122. However, "Local Switch" is listed in the "PARAMETER TABLE (SYSTEM)" on page 19-- and incidentally, so is "Bulk Data Memory Protect Switch"-- so you should be able to turn Local Control either On or Off using a SysEx message, as well as being able to turn Bulk In Protect either On or Off if desired. I guess this Local Switch is for the whole system (i.e., all channels at once), so you don't need to send 16 messages, just one.


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Re: SY55 doesn't remember local off setting

Unread post by FunkMachine » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:58 am

Thanks guys. I only thought I might be able to have the SY save the setting as my old EX5 and AN1x remembered those settings. Suppose the SY is an older board, I guess I'll just have to live with it!

Thanks for the detailed sysex / midi cc explanations as well. I'll have a look to see if I can include that in my workflow but, to be honest, just switching it off on the synth is probably gonna be quicker (it's studio use only).

Bit annoying but I'll live with it for now. And here I was thinking the SY would be the perfect midi keyboard! So close... hehe



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Re: SY55 doesn't remember local off setting

Unread post by SiriusHardware » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:23 pm

I know this is quite old but for the record I think my SY22 does the same. The thing is, if you switch off the synth, remove it from your PC setup and take it somewhere else the synth will appear to be 'dead', at least in terms of sound output, if the unit stays in Local Off mode. So that's why it doesn't.

Maybe Yamaha pondered the possibility of getting lots of 'broken' synths returned only to find that all they had to do was turn LOCAL back ON?

Most people who turn on a synth or keyboard and hit some keys have the default expectation that it will make some noise. For it not to do that would be so unexpected that their first thought would be that it was faulty. So the power-on default is for LOCAL to be ON and those of us who want it the other way have to suffer the minor inconvenience of turning it OFF.

There's a whole science revolving around making things do what people intuitively expect them to do (so for example, rotary controls always increase the effect going clockwise and decrease it anticlockwise, slider controls always increase the effect going UP or to the RIGHT and decrease going DOWN or to the LEFT). There's absolutely no technical reason why they couldn't be wired to work the other way around, but the established convention is so strong that nobody would think of breaking it and nobody would understand why they had if they did.



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