SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Yamaha SY77 is a 16 voice multitimbral music workstation first produced by Yamaha Corporation in 1989. The SY77 is a synthesizer whose architecture combines AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) synthesis, AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) for ROM-borne sample-based synthesis, and the combination of these two methods christened Realtime Convolution and Modulation Synthesis (RCM).

Moderators: Derek, parametric, Saul, Fozzer

User avatar
Clyde
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:00 am
United States of America

SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by Clyde » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:14 am

As my programming notes and keyboards are all packed away for the moment (while I build a new music room/home studio), I can't really get to anything to see what can be done. I know that on the DX7IIFD you could program patches so that you could make realtime changes while playing (like a B3 patch that used the data sliders for drawbars). I know on the SY77 that mod wheel 2 is assignable and can be used to control EG bias which can change the timbre of an AFM element, or you could use it to control the filter cutoff. Anyone have any other ideas for realtime control of how a patch sounds (changing FM parameters)? I can't think of any others at the moment, I'm sure if I had my notes and keyboard in front of me, I could jog some memories from my poor, old, tired brain!!
Clyde



User avatar
Angelic_Layer
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 523
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Unread post by Angelic_Layer » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:30 am

I used to play a Keyboard mania tune using a controllable LFO on my friend's SY-77. I like to assign it to footswitch, but with hand you can make more precise control.
Can the SY-77 do panning? It may be a interesting effect.
With volume pedal, I can get realistic violin tone.



db7

Re: SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by db7 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:12 pm

I’ve been wondering about this recently and thought it might be better to bump this (found via a search for the same info) rather than starting a new thread, in the hope of getting some more in-depth answers about controlling user-defined parameters in real-time on the SY77/TG77/SY99, not just the small minority of things that are exposed by the UI as alluded to in the sole reply above.

As I understand it, control of user-defined parameters is not natively supported (as it apparently was on the DX7?), and real-time control of things such as individual Operators’ parameters would have to be done by an external device specifically programmed to send the dedicated commands over SysEx (as described in the MIDI Data Format manual). Is this correct?

If so, that would necessitate a programmable MIDI controller sending specifically defined SysEx, rather than just any old device generating CCs – meaning that I couldn’t use, for example, the myriad dials on my AN1x. Which would bring me to the question of which devices support this sort of fully configurable control over SysEx? I presume a PC is the most simple answer in terms of programmability, but that doesn’t give the player dials and sliders ready to use, so info on separate hardware devices capable of this would be welcome too.



User avatar
tux
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1076
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:42 am
Kiribati

Re: SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by tux » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:11 pm

db7 wrote: Which would bring me to the question of which devices support this sort of fully configurable control over SysEx?
I have a Kenton Control Freak SE which can be programmed to send any CC or any custom sysex command via it's 16 sliders and 16 buttons. I mostly use it with a Oberheim Matrix 1000, haven't tried it with a SY77/99 as I don't have one.


My Yamaha RM50 page
My Yamaha synths: RM50, TG77, TG500, EX5R, CS6R (with PLG150-AN and PLG150-DX)

User avatar
Derek
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3527
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:00 am
Contact:
Wales

Re: SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by Derek » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:00 pm

I use a Roland FC300 foot controller (to keep both hands free for playing). With that you can program any CC or SYSEX message for any device, including Note On/Off, program and bank changes etc, and of course what you need to control can change in each FC300 patch. As well as the two foot controllers on the FC300 I have another controller pedal. I tend to use one for Organ Volume, one for general volume (for swells) and one for Leslie speed. But of course they are all freely programmable for anything.


Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

User avatar
Clyde
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:00 am
United States of America

Re: SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by Clyde » Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:21 pm

Some of the things you can control in realtime:
effect parameters page 123 of owners manual, controller set can allow filter modulation page 128/129, controller set pan page 130, filter cutoff depth page 130/131, and I may have missed something. Another alternative is to play in the edit mode and be able to change parameters in realtime based on which edit page you have on screen.
Clyde


DX7IIFD, SY77, SY99, Hammond C3, Steinway L, CP300, AW1600, etc.

db7

Re: SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by db7 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:17 am

I only just found this because I hadn’t realised it’s in the wrong section (I assumed SY77, not SY35/22/etc.!) A move to the right place, perhaps?

Anyway, thanks a lot for the replies. Clyde, I knew about the few controllers that the UI itself exposes as implied by my previous post, but thanks for posting it for reference of other users; as for using Edit mode, that’s also easy to work out and can work only for one desired parameter at a time.

tux and Derek, thanks for some pointers in the right direction! The Control Freak rings a bell, now that you mention it, and it sounds especially interesting, so I’ll have a search for info now. Thanks! :D



User avatar
Clyde
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:00 am
United States of America

Re: SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by Clyde » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:45 am

Most of the realtime changes I used to do with the DX7IIFD were only one or two parameters and that was usually operator frequency on a Hammond patch to simulate changing drawbars. I'm sure there are many things you could do and I think the edit mode gives you a lot of opportunity. Another nice thing, while in edit mode you can have the sequencer recording your movements/changes and it can then play them back. This probably ended up in the wrong section when the original SY forum was broken down by models and put in several forums.
Clyde


DX7IIFD, SY77, SY99, Hammond C3, Steinway L, CP300, AW1600, etc.

db7

Re: SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by db7 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:08 am

Clyde wrote:I'm sure there are many things you could do and I think the edit mode gives you a lot of opportunity.
True, and it’s not highly likely that I’d often need to alter multiple parameters at the same time, but I’m just thinking about theoretical possibilities here. ;)
Another nice thing, while in edit mode you can have the sequencer recording your movements/changes and it can then play them back.
This is a good tip! Should I presume that, like normal notes, these edits can be layered over existing musical phrases and over other editing recordings, so that the users could ‘stack’ different real-time controls? If so, it’s a very good tip! That would certainly enable the types of things that I’m thinking of for the purposes of recording; an external controller would then only be necessary for (theoretical :P) live manipulation of more than one parameter.



User avatar
brunorc
Member
Member
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: SY77 Realtime parameter changes

Unread post by brunorc » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:37 pm

db7 wrote: Which would bring me to the question of which devices support this sort of fully configurable control over SysEx?
Behringer BCR2000 & BCF2000.
WaveIdea/CME BitStream 3X.


Cheers,
Bruno

Yamaha AN1x, Yamaha SY77, Yamaha EX5, Yamaha FS1R
E-mu PK-6, E-mu MP7, E-mu Morpheus, E-mu UltraProteus, E-mu Proteus 2000
Korg Z1, Korg Wavestation A/D, Novation KS5, Novation Supernova II
Fatar SL-880, Behringer BCR 2000, eMagic Unitor 8

...but even the fanciest gear won't play by itself.

Post Reply

Return to “Yamaha SY77 Forum - Covers the Sy77 Keyboard and TG77 Module”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests