Begging for ROMS

The Yamaha SY99 is a synthesiser combining frequency modulation synthesis (branded as Advanced FM) and sample-based synthesis (branded as Advanced Wave Memory 2) and the direct successor to Yamaha's SY77/TG77

Moderators: parametric, Derek, Saul, Fozzer

User avatar
Clyde
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:00 am

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by Clyde » Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:05 am

Some way, some how between the couple of threads talking about SY99 ram expansion, the very bright and intelligent people on this forum will figure out a way to get the ram expansion done. I've seen good things come out of these discussions in the past and I have every reason to believe that this ram expansion will come to fruition at some point. I only wish I had the knowledge to be able to contribute to this effort, instead I will have to be the "cheerleader" trying to get some action going. Again I thank all of the extremely knowledgeable people on these forums that contribute unselfishly of their time and knowledge and make these improvements possible for some of the best synths that Yamaha ever made.
Clyde
DX7IIFD, SY77, SY99, Hammond C3, Steinway L, CP300, AW1600, etc.

User avatar
EX5_etc
Member
Member
Posts: 496
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by EX5_etc » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:18 am

Hi all.

Currently I am involved in legal proceedings with my former employer. For the last couple of years I have switched from being an engineer to being a lawyer. Long story short, it has taken too much of my time and it will continue to do so in a very stressful and emotional way. Being politically incorrect in the "proud" state of California is a deadly sin these days but I am going to go all the way and become the top sinner. Having said that I must also say that I share my free time between the various hobbies of mine, electronics, astronomy, keyboards, etc.

The memory expansion is something that will take time. The main purpose is to design a cheap expansion up to the limit of 8MB. At this point the bottleneck is the software that must be disassembled. As I have explained I do not have the knowledge to do that. I never liked assembly and I never will. I used it long time ago while I was hacking into some Mac programs but I did not enjoy the experience. I was good in writing higher level code and I still do when I program the microcontrollers for my projects. So, I cannot help further with this part of the project.

The design that I have partially described in some other thread will involve the chip sold here:
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... reId=10001

It is very low priced at $2.95 and I have bought four of them (they sent me the Hitachi version) so that I can (at some point in the future) design 1MB expansion boards. The four chips are good for two boards. The design will require some re-wiring of the address bits because that particular chip uses only one CS (chip select) signal while Yamaha used two such signals on every chip on their expansion boards. For that purpose I also bought 8-to-3 encoders that I will use as 4-to-2 encoders in my design.

Why I went with that chip? Because it's cheap. And so were the encoders that cost me a few cents each.

I will keep an eye on the forum and when I have time and ideas I will share them. But I cannot promise anything more than that. The 1MB design that I have in mind is not a top priority now as I have to finish other projects that I have been delaying for over 5 years. But you never know how things will turn out.

Regards and a lot of respect to those that keep this forum going.
DrF
Motif XF6, SY99, SY85, QS300, PSR1000, WX5, EX5R, A5000, TG500, TG55, RM50, QY700, QY100, QX5FD, MJC8, YDP2006, REV500, EMP700, EQ500U, MCS2, AW16G, Axiom Pro 49 and a few other things by Behringer, Evolution, Philips, Tascam, Technical Pro, Yamaha, etc, etc,... I wish I had time to use all this stuff; I am not even pro. :-)

synthjoe
Member
Member
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by synthjoe » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:20 am

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
EX5_etc wrote:At this point the bottleneck is the software that must be disassembled. As I have explained I do not have the knowledge to do that. I never liked assembly and I never will.
I do have the knowledge and passion for assembly - the only language I really like due to its immediacy that translates transparently to hardware. High level programming languages waste a tremendous amount of computing resources - not a fault of harware engineers. What I don't have much is spare time, but the little I have I would happily put into this project. However, reverse engineering a rather large bunch of assembly code and altering it without any negative impact to the whole is very time consuming that I'd prefer to avoid if someone had the Musitronic dump or even better, the source for the original (not likely, I know). Otherwise the whole concept has to be reconstructed from the hardware and the code, and only then this little part dealing with memory management can be safely changed.

I have access to the the 2MB SRAM / 8 MB FLASH dual chip I referred to at about $.5. Maybe it's just me, but it was used in several early mobile phones and therefore manufactured in large quantities, so I guess it should be available at pretty much the same conditions worldwide. That's a great price for the 512 kB SRAM you've found, but still about 10x more expensive proportionally than the 2MB / 8MB chip above. However, at this price it is not such a big difference - I looked at other alternatives to keep component count low and BSI's BS62LV1600EIP55 (2 MB SRAM) looked like the best solution but unfortunately it is priced very high (~$30 apiece). The SRAM/FLASH chip I suggested is almost 100x cheaper. Now, that's a big difference, even at this price.

Anyways, if you have time to progress with the project I would be willing to cooperate, time permitting.

User avatar
ilmenator
Member
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by ilmenator » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:39 pm

Hey, just found this interesting thread!

I've been thinking about the all-in-one SRAM expansion for some time now, and looking at the service manual all seems to be pretty straight forward. Then I came across a second-hand Musitronics expansion and my interest in developing this myself faded, and I turned to other projects. But then, looking at the Musitronics expansion shows: The Musitronics way is indeed simple and clean, if you are confident with the soldering iron and a little bit of PCB layouting.

When I installed the expansion in my 99, I found that the ROMs are not socketed, so I did not put in the v1.57EX EPROM. I see that you are searching for one, so I offer my help. I am located in Norway, and I am not particularly keen on shipping this thing anywhere, but if you could point me to the cheapest way (=device) of reading out this thing, I'd be willing to try. The EPROM looks a bit rough, it has been pulled by the previous owner and I have never tried it myself, but it seems it is worth a try and see if it still holds the data.
P4181426_kl.jpg
P4181428_kl.jpg
Best, ilmenator

User avatar
Clyde
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:00 am

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by Clyde » Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:17 am

Hi ilmenator,
Welcome to the Forums! This is exactly the help we were looking for here, I'll let one of our more technically oreiented members advise you on the best way to proceed. Thank you so very much for your offer to help in this project.
Clyde
DX7IIFD, SY77, SY99, Hammond C3, Steinway L, CP300, AW1600, etc.

User avatar
ilmenator
Member
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by ilmenator » Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:33 am

Well I'm technically savvy so to speak, but I am not sure I want to shell out a hundred dollars to buy an EPROM burner. So, if anyone has any low-cost alternative to point me to, I'd definitely like to hear about that!

ilmenator

User avatar
Clyde
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:00 am

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by Clyde » Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:53 am

There should be a way to create a BIN file of the ROM, the BIN file would contain the data needed, again beyond my tech skills but others here can offer suggestions.
Clyde
DX7IIFD, SY77, SY99, Hammond C3, Steinway L, CP300, AW1600, etc.

User avatar
Miks
Specialist Moderator
Specialist Moderator
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:00 am
Contact:
Germany

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by Miks » Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:54 pm

Hi ilmenator,

perhaps you know somebody with an eprom-burner who will assist you in reading out the data and put them into a .bin or .hex file. Often people who are involved in repairing computers have such a unit at hand and are willing to help (I myself have 2 different burners, but I'm from germany... :? )
After having the data-file you're able to send it to someone on this forum... :mrgreen: I'm very interested herein too :lol:

Miks
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade

User avatar
ilmenator
Member
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by ilmenator » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:44 pm

Okay,

so I removed part of the sticker and the device is a 27C4001. It looks like any cheap China EPROM burner could handle this, so I might order one. Getting the thing here might take a few days, though.

Best, ilmenator

User avatar
Miks
Specialist Moderator
Specialist Moderator
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:00 am
Contact:
Germany

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by Miks » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:40 pm

But you have to make sure that the e-prommer you choose could handle a device of these, it's a 4 Mbit (512kBx8) eprom. Good luck on your search... we like to hear how you get forward! :lol:

Miks
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade

synthjoe
Member
Member
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by synthjoe » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:45 am

Hi Guys - Greetz to ilmenator!

Sorry for the late response, I've been out of the country for a couple of weeks and really busy, so I did not have the time to check in. This is excellent news - thanks for the help offered.

As to the EPROM burner/reader, I have one that I'd be happy to send, but the shipping cost is probably higher than a cheap kit on location. Mine needs Win9x anyways to work, but if this helps us to reach the objective I can look into the shipping. In fact a very simple reader can be built with a couple of CD4040 ICs on a breadboard (plug-in type experimental circuit board). Small 'breadboards' can be had at most local electronic shops for about EUR 5-10, you need some wires and connect the whole to the printer port of a PC. Then a little sofware, and it should work. If ilmenator is willing to go this way, I could help - but frankly, a cheap programmer might be much less of a hassle and hence a far more efficient (also money wise) way to get this done, if one is not really into electronics.

However, I have to emphasize that what we're doing here should be purely for 'educational purposes', as I'm sure the code is protected intellectual property (maybe the rights have already expired, but I have not checked anything in that direction). PM me if you need further details.

Thanks again for your willingness to share, I'm sure your work would be of great benefit to the community!

P.S.: I understand that this listing has all necessary options to have a working solution - however, I do not know the seller, have never dealt with them and did not read all details of the listing, just a quick scan and the list of supported devices at the bottom of the page to give an example.

P.P.S.: Whatever you buy or build, try with some other chips first to ensure perfect working of the device. Would not be wise to plug into any cheap programmer the ONLY loose chip in existence we know of today as a test muster, would it? :D

User avatar
Miks
Specialist Moderator
Specialist Moderator
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:00 am
Contact:
Germany

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by Miks » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:59 pm

I would offer my help but that would mean that I have to get the eprom here. I'm familiar with those units as I have these two models at hand:

http://www.batronix.com/shop/programmer ... ammer.html

and

http://www.batronix.com/shop/programmer/BX48/index.html

They are very easy to use and safe in operation and the required software can be downloaded from the manufacturers website for free...

...and they're powered and operating via USB... :mrgreen:

I've done all my firmware updates (6 units) by using one of this eprom-burners, and none of them failed!

Cheers

Miks
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade

synthjoe
Member
Member
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by synthjoe » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:49 am

Yeah, same here. But ilmenator wrote that he'd rather not send the EPROM, so I guess we have to find another solution. But then again, Germany is quite close to Norway and shipping is probably a lot safer between those two countries than to Hungary, my current location...

User avatar
Miks
Specialist Moderator
Specialist Moderator
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:00 am
Contact:
Germany

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by Miks » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:32 am

I fully agree. But by taking a look at the prices of those programmers nobody would expect me to send one of these by mail to someone else :mrgreen:

Beside that I'm way to old to collect other peoples gear or items and not giving it back.
But I think ilmenator will find a suitable way to help us out.

Miks
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade

User avatar
ilmenator
Member
Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:00 am

Re: Begging for ROMS

Unread post by ilmenator » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:11 pm

A cheap Sivava clone is on its way to Norway - in fact so cheap it flies below the customs office's radar. Let's see if it actually works. And yes, I'll try with a different EPROM first 8)

Post Reply

Return to “Yamaha SY99 Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest