Problems with MIDI connection

Yamaha SY77 is a 16 voice multitimbral music workstation first produced by Yamaha Corporation in 1989. The SY77 is a synthesizer whose architecture combines AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) synthesis, AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) for ROM-borne sample-based synthesis, and the combination of these two methods christened Realtime Convolution and Modulation Synthesis (RCM).

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omoroca
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Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by omoroca » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:50 pm

I'm trying different tools for managing the SY77 contents via MIDI on my Windows PC. I tried SY Manager 5 by Jon Morgan and sy.factory 3.11.01, but none of them work.

My MIDI cable is Ok, I was able to establish a communication with my tracker program (Renoise) in both directions. Are there any settings I have to make on the SY77? I already went to MIDI Utility > Channel Set and set the device number to 1, but still no success. :-(

Am I missing anything?

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Derek
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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Derek » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:20 pm

When you say your MIDI cable is OK, do you mean that your MIDI interface is one of these low cost USB to MIDI Cables?

If so, then it is best to bin it and get a better interface. A lot of these devices have buffers that are large enough for basic real time MIDI coms, like playing notes, but their buffers are not large enough for SYSEX data. A good cheap MIDI only device, which is robust is the MIDISPORT 2x2.

If you are having problems with several programs, then it points to an underlying cause like the interface. With my sy.factory program, 90% of reported MIDI COMMS problems are to do with these interfaces, and the problems go away when a better interface is put in the chain.

In terms of SYSEX transfer, in the MIDI Pages of the SY, set the DEVICE NUMBER to ALL. It will then effectively ignore any SYSEX device number in the messages it is receiving. You only need to play with DEVICE NUMBER if you have multiple SY77s on the same MIDI chain.
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http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by omoroca » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:57 am

"my" sy.factory program? Does that mean you're Derek Cook, the developer of sy.factory?

Thanks for the recommendation. I indeed have a 3€ USB MIDI cable. Is there anything cheaper than the MIDISPORT 2x2 with still acceptable quality? And anything special I need to consider concerning the MIDI cables?

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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Derek » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:09 am

Yes, sy.factory is all my fault.... ;)

I can't recommend anything less than a MIDI Sport 2x2, which is not to say that there is something out there that is lower cost which works, but I know that a MIDI Sport is good quality and works, I have had one as an "emergency" interface for 16 years and it is bomb proof.

You get what you pay for. :)
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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Saul » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:28 am

omoroca wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:57 am

Thanks for the recommendation. I indeed have a 3€ USB MIDI cable. Is there anything cheaper than the MIDISPORT 2x2 with still acceptable quality? And anything special I need to consider concerning the MIDI cables?
There is the MIDISPORT 1x1 which will also do the job and that is £22.95
https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/SPORT1X1/ ... isport-1x1

There some even cheaper cable type connectors out there from places like Thomann but I'm not sure they are any better than the ones you can buy off Ebay and I definitely would not recommend those! As Derek mentioned they are "usually" ok for just connecting your keyboard to computer in order to play stuff but when your needs stretch to SYSEX data transfer then you do need something more robust.
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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Sonus » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:22 pm

This midi file requests SY77/TG77 P1 voices at one second intervals, one minute for a complete bank.
You can use any sequencer for transmitting and a sysex tool (midi-ox, c6) for receiving the data.
If the usb midi interface is working properly, SY77 P1 = 42299 bytes, TG77 P1 = 35148 bytes.

Image

SY77_TG77_P1_voice_dump_request.zip
(417 Bytes) Downloaded 9 times
Last edited by Sonus on Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Derek » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:39 pm

Saul wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:28 am
omoroca wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:57 am

Thanks for the recommendation. I indeed have a 3€ USB MIDI cable. Is there anything cheaper than the MIDISPORT 2x2 with still acceptable quality? And anything special I need to consider concerning the MIDI cables?
There is the MIDISPORT 1x1 which will also do the job and that is £22.95
https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/SPORT1X1/ ... isport-1x1

There some even cheaper cable type connectors out there from places like Thomann but I'm not sure they are any better than the ones you can buy off Ebay and I definitely would not recommend those! As Derek mentioned they are "usually" ok for just connecting your keyboard to computer in order to play stuff but when your needs stretch to SYSEX data transfer then you do need something more robust.
Yup, a 1x1 MIDISPORT should be fine as well, but I can only vouch for the interfaces I have used before. :)

If you are serious about MIDI I would invest in a decent interface and ditch the cheap lead, or keep it for something where you just need to send/receive real-time data and not SYSEX. :)
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by omoroca » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:01 pm

Derek wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:39 pm
If you are serious about MIDI I would invest in a decent interface and ditch the cheap lead, or keep it for something where you just need to send/receive real-time data and not SYSEX. :)
I think I'm going to need a capable MIDI adapter, as I'm not willing to work with the SY77's floppy drive. That is too retro, even for me. ;-)

I think I'll choose the 1x1, as I'm always trying to keep everything as small as possible and never buy any more than I need at the particular moment. And 29€ sounds reasonable. Thanks for the recommendation, Saul!

Befor I order: Anything I need to know about the MIDI cables? Is it Ok to buy the cheapest ones? My old MIDI adapter has built-in MIDI cables, so I cannot reuse these.

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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by omoroca » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:13 pm

What about this device here?
M-Audio USB Uno USB-MIDI-Interface

It has built-in cables.

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Miks
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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Miks » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:00 pm

Since your flag is 'Germany' I recommend to read the customer ratings.

I own a mio iConnectivity USB Midi-Interface which works without a flaw:

https://www.thomann.de/de/iconnectivity ... arch_prv_9
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade


http://rescuer-uslar.de/
https://www.facebook.com/Rescuer.Uslar/

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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Derek » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:31 pm

I think if you purchase am M-Audio device, even a "MIDI USB Lead" you are probably OK, but I personally cannot vouch for this device. If others say it works with SYSEX then it is worth a chance, but if not I would still go with a MIDI-SPORT. Your call of course. Question is how much money are you prepared to save compared to the value of your time researhing it? ;)

E.g.. A MIDISPORT 1x1 is €28. A MIDISPORT 2x2 is €48. If you value your time at €20 an hour, and I have told you that a MIDISPORT 2x2 works, is it worth wasting an hour of your time trying to find something cheaper?

If you don't put a value on your time and want the cheapest possible, then go with the M-AUDIO UNO at your risk, but buy it on the condition that it is to work with SYSEX.

-----

PS, I have probably consumed about €10 of my time (life) answering your queries, so if ever I am in your home town, you owe me a beer ;)
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Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by omoroca » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:01 am

Thanks for the recommendation, Miks. 1,5m cable is too short for me, unfortunately.

@Derek: You convinced me. One failure with a cheap USB cable is enough, I don't need another one. I ordered the M-Audio MIDISport 2X2 USB Bundle for 60€, which additionally includes 4 MIDI cables of 1,8/2m length each.

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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Miks » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:18 pm

omoroca wrote:Thanks for the recommendation, Miks. 1,5m cable is too short for me, unfortunately.
OK - I wasn't aware of that.. no problem. 8)
I ordered the M-Audio MIDISport 2X2 USB Bundle for 60€, which additionally includes 4 MIDI cables of 1,8/2m length each.
That's a good buy from Thomann :wink: that interface should do the trick.
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade


http://rescuer-uslar.de/
https://www.facebook.com/Rescuer.Uslar/

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Re: Problems with MIDI connection

Unread post by Derek » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:46 pm

Great. Let us know how it goes. :)
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.com

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