Tyros 3 HDD problem

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magalan
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Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by magalan »

Newbie on the Forum - please be gentle!!
I have inherited a Tyros 3, complete with Owners Manual. After much reading and internet searching I have found this forum, and I hope somebody out there can help.
I have tried to play back the contents of the HDD, but it is very jittery / jumpy on playback, At least I know there is something on the HDD. Following the manual I have made a backup of the HDD, which lists itself as tyros3.bup and I am unable to see what is in the backup. I realise I might have to invest in a replacement HDD, but where can I find out if there are files that need transferring from original to replacement? I have had the HDD out but have not been able to access any info it might contain. I read in the manual that I can control it through a computer, but I have not had any luck in connecting it to a laptop.
Any ideas out there please???


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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by parametric »

Hi Magalan - and welcome to the forums . . . .

I suspect that you have already copied the HD Contents to your computer as described on p97 of the Manual,

using "Storage Mode?

Tyros3 Storage Mode.jpg

Not sure how old the Tyros3 is . . . . . could be that the HD needs replacing . . . . .

might be an idea to replace with an SSD?

You will need a PATA SSD. The existing drive is an IDE HDD (What is the capacity? - look on the drive's label)

annoyingly, the manual does not mention the size of the existing disk OR, how big a capacity the T3 will accept . . . :roll:

It DOES mention that SATA Drives will NOT work. I would guess that a 128GB PATA SSD should work?

You will probably need to source this from China - I have done this for my Alesis Fusions (also originally IDE HDDs)

As far as reading the files on a PC - they may be proprietary in nature and not readily readable by normal means . . .

The above page does mention ONLY Windows XP and Vista :think: Later versions of Windows may be problematic?

They DO suggest not to mess with the Audio files in the Root Folder - as it may render them unusable in the Recorder . . . .

Perhaps some of that helps?

parametric
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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by Saul »

The Tyros 3 was released in 2008. SATA was introduced in 2003. That is 5 years Yamaha had to stop using outdated technology but no, as usual, they stuck with the old school way and left their latest flagship offering languishing in the past :/: Even the Tyros 2 which came out in 2005 "could" have used SATA.

You can get an adapter to convert a SATA to PATA though so that gets around the issue although won't improve performance at all.

https://amzn.to/2EfPjrn
sata-to-ide.png
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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by parametric »

Yeah Saul . . . It beats me why (as purported innovators) they choose to hobble their products with old technology :o

Perhaps to lessen the chances of it being reviveable - and so direct us to new(er) boards . . . ?

The thing is, Yamaha make boards with GREAT sounds that people LIKE - and want to KEEP :pray:

I hear the cry "tried and tested" is reliable . . . . . well, yes, but with each iteration these technologies get

better/reliable QUICKER - each time you go round the loop - so to speak . . . .

PATA IDE is a bit old-hat now. Perhaps a SM would reveal more info about max capacity of the HD/(SSD)?

The Alesis Fusions which are also IDE were tried with IDE<>SATA adaptors, but none would work with a SATA drive.

It's doubtful whether you could even get a replacement IDE HDD of the original size in any case, these days?

The Fusion's IDE controller WILL SEE larger drives - but will only format up to 120GB as they have done with the 128GB

PATA SSD drives I fitted.

It's down to the particular controller they have fitted to the Tyroses, as to whether this will work . . . . ?

Chris


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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by magalan »

Thanks for the replies.
The installed HDD is 80gb
Sorry, but p.97 of the manual didn't work for me! Followed instructions to the letter, but once the "USB Storage Mode" graphic was on screen I couldn't do anything with it. The keyboard didn't show up anywhere on my laptop - possibly because it's windows7 and not XP/Vista. I did manage to copy the 3 .wav files I can see on the HDD to a memory stick. They all played back perfectly through the laptop with no jittering or jumping, so I guess that sort of confirms that the HDD has passed it's sell by date and I need to get another one. My big question is are there any other hidden (System) files on the HDD that I will need to copy over to a new disk? For instance, where are all the voices/rhythms/styles/registrations held?

By the way - brilliant forum, so much info/help etc etc even if I don't really understand most of it!!!!!!


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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by Saul »

You are not alone magalan, I don't understand most of it either :lol:

I have never accessed a Tyros drive but I would have thought the files would be viewable on a PC. Not through the Tyros to PC connection but by either putting the drive in a USB docking station or hard drive caddy or attaching the drive direct to the PC. Then you simply change view mode to show hidden files and they should all be there?

Chris will probably know more about that than I do. I have viewd files from other keyboards on the PC but not having done it with a Tyros or indeed any Yamaha keyboard I don't know if that works.


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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by parametric »

magalan wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 7:41 am My big question is are there any other hidden (System) files on the HDD that I will need to copy over to a new disk? For instance, where are all the voices/rhythms/styles/registrations held?
If you managed to copy the audio files, then it suggests that the PC is seeing the Tyros HDD OK . . . .

Good point by Saul - to check in Win7 that viewing hidden files is ticked . . . (It's NOT ticked by default IIRC)

As I don't own a Tyros, I can't say what the architecture of the HDD is? Perhaps it's only function is to record .wav files?

in which case there's possibly nothing else to see on there. . . . ?

As regards the factory voices/performances/styles etc, the only parallel I have is my Alesis Fusion which is described

as a Digital Audio Workstation - so possibly similar in design?

It's factory voices (programs - in Alesis-speak) and performances (Mixes - in Alesis-speak) are in ROM . . . .

ALTHOUGH - MANY more BANKS may be added and referenced (i.e stored) on the HDD . . .

:?: Any Tyros users in here that have looked at their HDD on a PC - and can answer this?

When you connect the Tyros disk physically to a PC - check the reported SIZE against the size of the .wavs you copied . . .

A serious discrepancy may suggest there are hidden files there? (IYSWIM)

Let us know what you see . . . . ;)

Chris


Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by magalan »

Thanks again for the help.....

I actually copied the wav files to a USB stick, which I then played through a laptop. As I said, p.97 of the manual didn't work for me. I connected the Tyros to a laptop and followed instructions on starting up the Tyros, but was unable to see anything at all other than the expected graphic.

The three wav files on the stick total 118mb. Going into Function/Utility on Tyros shows the HDD as 74.42gb total / 74.25gb available, ie 170mb used.
3 wav at 118mb - that leaves 42mb unaccounted for. I think I'll take the HDD to my local tame computer wizz and get him to see what he can find.

Looking in Tyros Function / Utility there is a System Reset page with four choices of function to reset - System / Midi / User Effect / Music Finder. These four are all listed as presets, ie they have their own Preset Tab, separate from the User Tab and HD1 tabs - so it looks as if the HDD might not used for system files, only for .wav, just as Chris surmised.


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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by parametric »

magalan wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:30 am I connected the Tyros to a laptop and followed instructions on starting up the Tyros, but was unable to see anything at all other than the expected graphic.

The three wav files on the stick total 118mb. Going into Function/Utility on Tyros shows the HDD as 74.42gb total / 74.25gb available, ie 170mb used.
3 wav at 118mb - that leaves 42mb unaccounted for. I think I'll take the HDD to my local tame computer wizz and get him to see what he can find.
It's important to recognise the difference between viewing the Tyros HDD ON the Tyros itself (via IT's menus) rather than

removing the HDD from the Tyros and inserting it into a disk caddy and connecting it to a PC.

The Tyros' OS may hide files you don't need to know about for "normal" purposes, whereas looking from a PC may reveal any

"hidden" files. Perhaps your tech can see these?

Personally, if the audio files are/were from the previous user, then they are probably only of curiosity interest . . .

Best plan is to acquire a PATA SSD, prepare it in the Tyros (which should place any needed files on it) - and start from

scratch with a clean machine . . . :clap:
When my Alesis Fusion "formats" it's own HDD/SSD, it is NOT SIMPLY "a format" . . . .

It also creates a number of required folders at the same time, that the Fusion needs to operate correctly . . .

Hence the caution given - NOT to format in Windows . . . .

It could be that the Tyros is arranged the same way . . . . ?
Chris


Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - https://yamahamusicians.com/720k-floppy-disks-for-sale/

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by magalan »

Thanks for the sensible advice about when and where to format

That's the way I'm going to go - see what the local wizz can see on the old disk, then replace it.

Thanks for all the help and advice - I'll let you know what happens........


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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by magalan »

Success! Took the old drive to our local computer wizz, but he couldn't find anything I didn't already know about, so I took the plunge and ordered another 80gb PATA/IDE HDD through Lazada (equally as good as Amazon/Ebay) for the princely sum of 333 Thai Baht (c.£8 or $10). Removed old disk, inserted new, screen instantly showed "Unformatted disk". Formatted drive, everything working OK.
Huge thanks to this Forum, particularly Saul and Parametric.


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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by parametric »

EXCELLENT outcome <magafan> ((i)) ((i)) ((i))

Congrats.

Now you can continue to enjoy you revitalised Tyros :dance:

ATB

parametric


Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - https://yamahamusicians.com/720k-floppy-disks-for-sale/

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: Tyros 3 HDD problem

Unread post by Saul »

VERY glad to hear that you got it sorted magalan (Y)

Also thanks for the update. That will help many others with the same issue ((i)) ((i)) ((i))


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