Trying To Understand Patch/Program Changes on P515

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soundchaser59
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Trying To Understand Patch/Program Changes on P515

Unread post by soundchaser59 »

I just got a P515 and I love the sound and the action. But I notice that all of the demo clips on youtube only demo the sounds, not the midi powers of this keyboard. I have a good midi background (KX88 controller for 35 years, TX81Z, FB01, DX7, Roland U20 and U220, drum machines, midi controlled guitar amps, etc many years ago, and now Reaper, VST's etc) but the architecture and terminology of this keyboard is slightly different than what I'm used to.

1. I am going thru the manual page by page to get a basic familiarity, but I've encountered something I don't understand. I can record piano midi and/or audio to a track in Reaper, and it plays back just fine. The confusion comes when I start changing the program (program is same as "patch"? the old ways use the word patch) from one piano to the next as I'm recording.

The patch changes will show up in the Reaper track as 8 byte hex strings, and they don't increment by 1 when I change to the next piano patch. So it's a bit odd to try and figure out which patch the string is calling up.

Then when I play the track back, the patch changes might change the piano voice correctly, but the display on the piano never changes. It stays on CFX Grand. The display stays the same but I can hear the piano sound changing, so what is it that the patch change command is actually changing as the Reaper track plays?

2. Another thing that confused me was when I turned local control off I was still able to play the piano and hear sound. I thought local control meant no direct connection from piano keyboard to piano sound? I don't think it was looping thru Reaper since the track was not record enabled.

3. When midi receive is set to song or keyboard, what does that mean? The explanation in the manual seems a bit vague to me.

4. When I edit a sound, maybe I add chorus and delay and change the EQ, how are my changes saved? Do I have to tell it to save my settings as a user patch? If I don't save the changes will they be wiped out when I change voices and then change back? I suppose this topic is coming in the manual, I just haven't gotten to it yet.

Thanks in advance for any tips you have. I will eventually figure out what's going on, but it's faster if someone can just explain it. I'm really surprised the demo clips online overlook such a powerful feature on this keyboard. To me mastering the 16 track midi recorder is absolutely essential.


soundchaser59
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Re: Trying To Understand Patch/Program Changes on P515

Unread post by soundchaser59 »

I have a lot to learn (or relearn!) about how midi controls things. I will have to do some serious trial and error to figure out how the MSB and LSB messages translate to changes on the keyboard, and how those changes are targeted to Song or Keyboard. I assume "Song" refers to a song that has 16 midi tracks in it. And a program change that comes in on Song channel 1 will change the voice used in the song for midi track 1, even though the keyboard voice (the voice displayed on the front panel) may not change.

I suspect the Initial Setup feature might be quite useful to me if it really works the way I think it works. In the old days I believe this was akin to sending a sysex string that would tell each "black box" how to configure itself for the song I was about to play.

I used to have an Atari 1040 STE running Hybrid Arts SMPTETrack software. The software came with a "midi multiplexer" which allowed the software to target 64 distinct midi channels, 16 channels on each of 4 banks A-D. Bank A I controlled all of my Yamaha synths. Bank B controlled the Roland synths. Bank C controlled all of the rack mount fx boxes. Bank D was reserved for the programmable mixer and lights. The midi plexer would also read, write, and chase a SMPTE time code stripe recorded on track 8 of a TSR8 half inch reel to reel. That allowed me to synch up the analog tracks (guitar, bass, voices) to the sequenced tracks. When a song was finished all I had to do was hit play on the TSR8 and the Atari would configure and control everything else in real time as the song played. It was pretty cool.

If I can master the midi control of the P515, I could put several VST's out of work.


soundchaser59
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Re: Trying To Understand Patch/Program Changes on P515

Unread post by soundchaser59 »

I have a hunch I can learn some things from how the program changes are done on the motif. I'm guessing the implementation is proobably similar on the p515, not exactly the same but similar.

a basic explanation to get me started....
https://yamahasynth.com/learn/2010s/ban ... ange-event

a MSB LSB calculator for the Montage that will likely translate somewhat to the P515.
https://keyboardwaves.com/montage-yamah ... alculator/

Once I figure it out I may be able to make a calculator for the P515.
Last edited by soundchaser59 on Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.


Canto
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Re: Trying To Understand Patch/Program Changes on P515

Unread post by Canto »

Congratulations on you purchase. There's no need to build a Midi Calculator. You should visit the Yamaha site listed in your manual and download these supplemental manuals listed in the Download Section:

Data List
Computer Operations Manual
Midi Reference List

The Midi Reference list will provide you with MSB LSB PC numbers for selecting your programs.
Edits to Programs are retained provided the Backup Settings are set to "On", page 105 of the General Manual. I strongly recommend becoming familiar with Backing up your Data to a USB drive.
Regarding Local Off, it maybe affected by a Loop Back feature mentioned in the manual, page 85. It may also be dependent on how your computer system is configured with the instrument. Likely covered in the Computer Manual.
By Midi Receive I gather you mean Midi In. When set to Song you are able to set different Midi Channels as needed with the Midi Data being filtered via the Receive Parameter settings, also as needed. Further details may be in the Midi Reference List.

It may help becoming accustomed to Yamaha's terminology for their instruments and their functions. It comes in handy when searching an index or text for help.


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