FORUM RULES - READ BEFORE POSTING
We don't have a great many rules on this forum. The ones we do have are mostly common sense but there are a couple which you do need to pay close attention to. You can read the latest version of the rules here: viewtopic.php?t=5958

Won't get fooled again

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8 and the MODX+

Moderators: Derek, parametric, Saul, RudyB

2010Milovanovic
Member
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:41 pm
3

Won't get fooled again

Unread post by 2010Milovanovic »

Hi everyone. My band is wanting to do a cover of this classic song by The Who. Could anyone advise me of the best way of recreating the synth sound, which runs the whole way through the song, on my MODX7. Please bear in mind I've only recently upgraded to the MODX and am very much in the dark about adding things like delay, phasing etc!
Many thanks!
User avatar
Derek Wales
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6499
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:00 am
16
Where Are You Located?: Wales, UK

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by Derek »

The sound is quite simple to get. You need an organ sound and a square wave LFO modulating amplitude to gate the sound with the LFO rate set to the right tempo. It's as simple as that.

I used to do this song in a former band, using a Motif Rack ES, so it should be more than possible to do on the Montage/MODX
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
2010Milovanovic
Member
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:41 pm
3

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by 2010Milovanovic »

Thanks very much for that Derek, but as I said I'm a novice when it comes to editing sounds. Is it easy to introduce the square wave LFO amplitude and set the tempo?
Thanks again.
frank13579
Member
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:47 pm
3
Where Are You Located?: Germany

VIP

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by frank13579 »

Hi,

there is a suitable patch called "Foolish Organ" under presets.

Frank
User avatar
anotherscott United States of America
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:36 pm
11

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by anotherscott »

I'd suggest a different approach. I would not use the LFO to create the pulse. Because then, to keep it in solid time, you're going to want to feed a click to the drummer (or at least the sound). And unless you feed stuff to the drummer as a matter of course, it's a lot of trouble to go through for one song, plus not every drummer is great at following things (drummers are much more used to having everyone else follow THEM for tempo). Instead, I would hit every chord manually, and use an LFO at a slow rate on the filter to create the timbral changes as you play a suitable organ sound (or maybe find a similar tone-altering effect, again set at a slow rate). Unless you don't care if the pulse goes out of time with the drums. ;-)
2010Milovanovic
Member
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:41 pm
3

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by 2010Milovanovic »

That's just the ticket. It'll be good for the others to follow me for a change!
Thanks Frank!
2010Milovanovic
Member
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:41 pm
3

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by 2010Milovanovic »

Thanks Scott. I know what you mean about the drummer keeping to my tempo. I'll play around with your suggestion and see which works best next rehearsal.
User avatar
Derek Wales
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6499
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:00 am
16
Where Are You Located?: Wales, UK

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by Derek »

It's a good point mentioned by anotherscott,

And I had forgotten, as it was so long ago, that I did both!

The way we used to play it is that I had the square wave mod patch on my top board and I played the intro, which set the tempo, and when the band kicked in, I swapped to playing it manually as the effect is less obvious with all band going. So the drummer started off with the tempo I set and I then carried the song on. We actually did a breakdown/reprise of the intro (as the way the Who did the whole song was a little boring....), so the whole band had to stop, wait a little while and then I was off again with the intro.

That was a good compromise for one song in the set without worrying too much about getting a click or the sound to the drummer.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
User avatar
vertig0spin Canada
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 667
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:15 am
5

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by vertig0spin »

anotherscott wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:47 pm I'd suggest a different approach. I would not use the LFO to create the pulse. Because then, to keep it in solid time, you're going to want to feed a click to the drummer (or at least the sound). And unless you feed stuff to the drummer as a matter of course, it's a lot of trouble to go through for one song, plus not every drummer is great at following things (drummers are much more used to having everyone else follow THEM for tempo). Instead, I would hit every chord manually, and use an LFO at a slow rate on the filter to create the timbral changes as you play a suitable organ sound (or maybe find a similar tone-altering effect, again set at a slow rate). Unless you don't care if the pulse goes out of time with the drums. ;-)
I've never done that song nor tried to emulate that organ, but that sounds like it would work. Definitely sounds like every chord is hit manually. I probably wouldn't be as concerned myself about the pulse going out of time with the drums and more concerned about getting it the proper speed, as The Who likely didn't use click tracks back in the day.

Maybe the slow pulse filter creates the timbral changes perfectly as you suggest (I haven't tried it before) ... I hear a phaser-like effect, so out of curiousity & after playing around with an Insert Effect for a few minutes, I came up with something kinda close. Might be worth a try!? :
- Add Insert Effect (Phaser > Tempo Phaser > Basic)
- LFO Speed = 1/4 x 16 (or there might be a better rate to set it at)
- LFO Depth = 127
- Phase Shift Ofs = 50
- Feedback = +47
- Dry/Wet = D<W63 (this could be adjusted)
- Stage = 10 (this could be adjusted to a better setting maybe)
- Diffusion = Stereo
- Phase Reset = Off
- EQ Low Gain = 0dB
- EQ High Gain = -12dB
- EQ High Freq = 2.8kHz
User avatar
Derek Wales
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 6499
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:00 am
16
Where Are You Located?: Wales, UK

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by Derek »

vertig0spin wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:19 pm ...., as The Who likely didn't use click tracks back in the day.
I'd query that, as you see a lot of live shows with Keith Moon wearing headphones. Not sure, but......
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
User avatar
anotherscott United States of America
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 826
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:36 pm
11

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by anotherscott »

Yes, Keith Moon was following some kind of backing track... whether it literally included a click or not, I don't know.
2010Milovanovic
Member
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:41 pm
3

Re: Won't get fooled again

Unread post by 2010Milovanovic »

Thanks for all your replies so far everyone. I'll give them all a try to see which works best.
Thanks again!
Post Reply