Copying recorded music from Clavinova

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goble
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Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by goble »

Hello all,

Firstly thanks to those committing to help in this forum. Hopefully I will be able to help others in the near future based on my next experiences. :D

I have a Clavinova CLP-230 and I want to transfer my recorded musical performance from the piano to my PC.

So I've connected the piano with a USB Cable on my PC. The drivers have been installed and PC detecting correctly the piano. I have installed the software Yamaha Musicsoft Downloader. The Software is meant to transfer files from and to piano. However after I record my musical performance, the software can see only a BUP file while browsing the instrument. The manual of the software says that I should see a mid file but can't find it.

Am looking for another 'simple' software that can do the job. Thanks for your help.


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Saul
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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by Saul »

First of all welcome to the forum :)

You should be able to save your songs to a usb stick or via a sequencer to the computer. You can save as a Clavinova file (bup) but that won't be much use unless you intend to just play it on your Clavinova. Also these files cannot be used on different models of Clavinova.

What you need to do is save as an SMF (standard midi file) which you can then use anywhere, all be it with a little tweaking depending on the playback device.

If you look at page 37 of the manual it says the following :

1. Select a User song to export.
Select a User song to export by using the [SONG SELECT] and [–/NO][+/YES]
buttons.

2. Select a song container in the device and export the
User song.

After making sure that the USB storage device is connected to the instrument,
press the [FILE] button (the “SAVE/EXP.” indicator lights). Then, while holding
the [FILE] button, simultaneously press the [–/NO][+/YES] buttons to select a
container (S00-S99). After releasing the [FILE] button, “n y” (no/yes) appears in
the display. Press the [+/YES] button to export the songs. The exported song will
be converted to SMF format and automatically exported into the “USER FILES”
folder and named as “USERSONGxx.mid.”

Overwriting the song
If you select a container which contains an SMF song, three dots appear in the
display (ex., “S.0.0.”). If you do not want to overwrite the file, press the [–/NO]
button when “n y (no or yes)” appears in the display and select another container.
If you want to overwrite the song, press the [+/YES] button. After “n-y”
appears in the display again to confirm whether you wish to overwrite the file or
not, press the [+/YES] button once more.

Is that what you were doing?


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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by stearman65 »

Hi Goble
Let me start by saying I have no knowledge of the Clavinova, I have looked at the manual & it appears to have a similar set up to my Yamaha MX61 synthesizer. I record direct from the MX61 into my Windows 7 Professional PC using the free software Audacity. I don't transfer pre-recorded tracks, only tracks on the fly (as I play). I've been using Audacity 11 years so I'm quite conversant with it. I was told by the Audacity forum that I wouldn't be able to do this & they were very surprised when I did. If you don't know Audacity, you can download a free copy, just register using the links on this link, beware as there are many people who will try to sell you a copy, it is free. If you wish to export your recorded tracks as MP3 files, you will also need the plug in Lame, which is available via the same link http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewforum.php?f=50 . Once you have both Audacity & Lame. Connect your Clavinova via a printer type cable from the host connection on the Clavinova to a USB connection on your PC. Switch on the PC & Clavinova, then open Audacity. You should see an image as screen shot AA1, If Audacity has recognised your Clavinova you should see it in the "Recording Device Box" see screen shot A1, if the Clavinova isn't shown, click the "Transport" tab on the top toolbar, scroll down to "RESCAN AUDIO DEVICES", then recheck the recording device box, if the Clavinaova is now shown, click it so that it is locked in the device box. To check if Audacity is receiving an Audio signal, click the red record button in Audacity & the pause button, try a few notes on the Clavinova, if Audacity is receiving data, you should see the recording waveform oscillating, if it isn't I've led you astray & I apologise, check screen shots A2 & A3. I hope you are able to use Audacity, it is a simple editing programme that will perform complicated functions.
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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by goble »

Hi Saul and Stearman65,

Sorry for delay in getting back, I was thinking that I would be notified of replies to my post. Is there a way to subscribe to my own post by the way ?

Anyway thanks for your recommendations.

Saul, I have a clavinova CLP-230. This model doesn't have a USB Type A connection (like one in a PC) to connect a USB flash drive to it. The manual includes the CLP-240 model and this model seems to include this connection (Page 37). :-(

Stearman65, I have followed all your instructions bur Audacity won't detect my piano. It does seem that Audacity is not compatible with CLP-230. Like I've said, my PC can see my piano. The Yamaha software can connect with it as well but for some reason cannot find only BUP file. While from the manual I do understand that these BUP files can be exported to MID however the export function seems to apply only to CLP-240.

I can't see the point of having those BUP files on my PC.


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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by Saul »

Well the only reason you would keep bup files on your pc is for storage. I think Yamaha should have done away with this proprietary file format a very long time ago but as usual they hang on to old tech as long as possible no matter how archaic it is. By now there should have been the option in the menu to simply export your songs to any number of formats. It 'should' be a quick and easy thing to do.

Audacity should see your keyboard but only of course if you have the 'audio' out from you Clavinova going into the computer. The CLP-230 doesn't have audio over usb. So this may be why Audacity doesn't see your keyboard.

Of course Audacity only records audio not midi which i think is what you wanted?

Looking at the specs though it seems that the CLP-230 only records in proprietary format (bup). There is no mention of SMF. So here again is another example of Yamaha making something simple into something convoluted and complex. No need for it and I really do not understand why they do it.

So the situation is, the CLP-230 cannot export anything to midi and does not record internally in midi file format.

This leaves you with limited options as the only way to get midi from the keyboard is to connect it's midi out port to your computer via a midi interface, which I'm assuming you don't have or you would be using it already?

A midi interface does not need to be expensive. You can use something like this Estudio USB to Midi Interface which is less than £10.00 and will do the job. Also there are plenty of free midi sequencer software packages out there such as Presonus Studio One which you download and when you run it choose to run as the free edition.

If you want to get 'audio' into your computer then you need something a little more advanced such as the Alesis IO2 Express USB Interface which at around £69 will give you both midi and audio into your computer. It also comes with a copy of Cubase LE so that sorts your sequencer software all in one bundle :)

Does any of that help?

Oh by the way, I have enabled reply notification in your profile so you should automatically receive replies to any thread you post in.


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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by stearman65 »

Hi Goble
Sorry about confusing your Clavinova model & that you can't connect with Audacity. I did a search of the PDF manual for "computer" & just read the items it came up with. I did a search for BUP files & it would appear they are files created by your antivirus system when it thinks it has detected a problem. You could try switching of your anti virus system & going through the connecting to Audacity process again, always remembering to open Audacity last. See http://fileinfo.com/extension/bup
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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by Saul »

It's not his Antivirus. The BUP file he is referring to is Yamaha's proprietary file format. It contains all song data but it can't be used on a computer, only in the Clavinova itself.

Audacity won't see his keyboard because it records only Audio so it's looking for anything on the audio inputs. The Clavinova is not connected via it's audio outputs so there is nothing for Audacity to see.

The only options are as I outlined in my earlier post. Connect the keyboard to the computer using a midi or audio/midi interface and then record into a software sequencer or, since audio would not be present, Audacity. Doing this he could simply hit 'play' on the keyboard to playback his previously recorded song (that bup file) and then record the output on the computer. Yamaha always amaze me at how they can force the user to go through a very convoluted route to do a very simple thing :(


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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by parametric »

Saul wrote: Yamaha always amaze me at how they can force the user to go through a very convoluted route to do a very simple thing :(
Saul wrote:So here again is another example of Yamaha making something simple into something convoluted and complex. No need for it and I really do not understand why they do it.
Precisely. It is SO irritating = and its not just Yamaha that do this sort of thing . . . .

I ACCEPT that Companies NEED to protect content that they have spent resources creating (or have paid others to create), but having to go such a long way round to achieve something so simple as a recording of the content is just irritating, ESPECIALLY if the midi content is YOUR OWN WORK . . .

The audio recording does NOT compromise the non-midi content (Styles etc) of the file - and AFAIK these details cannot be extracted from the audio . . . . So WHY all the cloak and dagger stuff?

As far as actually recording such output, both the Audio interface AND the Board itself need to support Audio over USB for it to work as you would expect.

If this is NOT so, then you have to go back to basics and record the Audio output of the board either from the L + R Jacks or Phonos, if provided - or indeed the Stereo headphone socket - connecting these with physical leads to L + R Line inputs of your Audio Interface - and thence to your Recording SW of choice . .
(Audacity perhaps).

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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by stearman65 »

HMMMM, I tried the earphone/audio jacks with my MX61 & couldn't get Audacity to record that either. Which doesn't surprise me as there is so much counterfeiting of technology going on (Chinese I-Phones £22). However, getting back to the Clavinova, I re-read the sections on connecting to a computer & their instructions are almost like for like with the MX61, so unless what is transmitted via the USB cable differs, I can't see why the Clavinova can't record into Audacity. Possibly the fact that I have Cubase & the Steinburg USB driver installed on my PC has allowed me to record direct from my MX61 to Audacity ? :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by Saul »

The CPL-230 only has a usb to host connection. This does not carry any sort of audio. It is simply for moving files to and from the computer.


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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by Miks »

As far as I'm aware: BUP stands for BackUP...


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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by Saul »

Miks wrote:As far as I'm aware: BUP stands for BackUP...
It does indeed. Which makes it even more confusing for the user who is recording their songs within the keyboard and then only seeing a 'back up file'.

Drives me nuts when companies do this. What on earth is so difficult about allowing users to save their songs as standard midi files? and especially if you only give them a usb to host type of connection along with standard din type midi ports, because now of course if Goble wants to move his music to the pc he has to go out and buy extra gear that he should not have had to buy.

Having said all that we do have to consider that the CLP-230 is around 10 years old. I think it was released in 2005? Still, many keyboards at the time would save songs in smf format so it wasn't as if it was uncommon. Also given the price point I would have thought the least Yamaha could do was let the customer save in smf format?


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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by parametric »

Saul wrote:The CPL-230 only has a usb to host connection. This does not carry any sort of audio. It is simply for moving files to and from the computer.
That kinda makes it the same as my Fusion then.

Connecting to the computer via USB probably disables the board as an instrument - allowing only file transfer.

This most likely explains why Audacity is seeing no audio.

Most likely the ONLY way to record is via an AUDIO I/F using the L+R outs or H/P out - leaving the USB UNCONNECTED.

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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by parametric »

Saul wrote: I would have thought the least Yamaha could do was let the customer save in smf format?
Quite so. I heartily agree.

Even then, its a half-way house (IMO).

These companies BANG-ON endlessly at the product release as to HOW WONDERFUL the sounds are, and I'm sure that many users BUY a board for that reason (Why WOULDN'T we?? We are MUSICIANS after all :roll:

So WHY should we be fobbed-off with a SMF - and be denied what we have PAID FOR?

Its absolute BO11OCKS IMO

As a customer-base we should be buying boards that EXPORT our creations as full bit-rate WAVs or AIFFs - One for each track - using the Voices we paid for.

Anything that CAN'T do that deserves to stay on the shelf.

Mp3 is a consumer "apology" of a format - we can post-process to that "If we wish".

para (sorry for the Rant!)


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Re: Copying recorded music from Clavinova

Unread post by goble »

Hello and thank to all for your inputs, I can see things clearer now,

we all agree saying that Yamaha should have design a better way to record music off the CLP-230 especially after taking care to include a USB to host connection.

@ Saul
Of course Audacity only records audio not midi which i think is what you wanted?

Yes ! I actually thinks that it would be quicker and easier to deal with files rather than audio input. Noting that I simply want my music in a readable format on my laptop. Am still a newbie, may be I'm wrong. :-)
A midi interface does not need to be expensive. You can use something like this Estudio USB to Midi Interface which is less than £10.00 and will do the job.
I'm trying to get a similar product on Ebay. Have contacted the seller since it seems to strangely not compatible with 64bits version of Windows (which I actually have).
It's not his Antivirus. The BUP file he is referring to is Yamaha's proprietary file format. It contains all song data but it can't be used on a computer, only in the Clavinova itself.
- Yes but the confusion comes with the fact that this extension is used by other application as well for ex: DVD info file (IFO) backup.
The CPL-230 only has a usb to host connection. This does not carry any sort of audio. It is simply for moving files to and from the computer.
- Yes this is the conclusion I came up to as well.

Will get back for results with the USB / Midi interface.


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